Welcome to the first "Non Petty" bonus episode folks. I think these episodes might focus on slightly-less or smaller artists who either I listen to and other people may not or are close to me in one way or another. The timing of Jake's first full studio-released single was perfect as I was thinking about doing this for the past few weeks. With Tom’s music, I have an invaluable resource in Paul Zollo’s superb book Conversations With Tom Petty, in which we hear Tom discuss his songs in his own words. So, to complement this episode, I figured I’d go straight to the source and ask him a bunch of questions about the song so that I could share his thoughts directly with you in the episode. As always, Jake was just incredibly helpful and happy to go into detail about the things I was interested in, so a massive thanks as always to him for a) adding to my library of excellent music and b) for being generous enough to share his thoughts.
Here's the link to the song (and music video): https://youtu.be/Al0K3BZJR9U
Here's Jake's first Youtube post (how cute is this!): https://youtu.be/urd0IJwKG2U
Here's links to our live stream: https://youtu.be/txdfp2gTCUw and Jake's Interpretations: https://youtu.be/pTIWCDHC1BY
And if you want to see Jake at the 2019 All Star weekend: https://youtu.be/Uoz45JP1TFs
(* Note - the transcript is as-written before recording. I usually change a few sentences or words here and there on the hoof as I'm speaking.)
Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, my fine friends. Welcome to episode seven of season six of the Tom Petty Project Podcast, which is another holiday bonus episode ! I am your host, Kevin Brown. This is the weekly podcast that digs into the entire Tom Petty catalog song by song, album by album and includes conversations with musicians, fans, and people connected with Tom along the way.
Now. That intro doesn’t actually work very well for this special bonus episode because today, I’m going off road. Ghosted Road to be specific, which is the new single from the mega-talented multi-instrumentalist and lifelong Tom Petty fan, Jake Thistle. I’ve recounted this before, but I’ve been a big fan of Jake’s since I saw the video of his performance at the Tom Petty All Star Concert in 2019. He performed Learning to Fly with members of the Heartbreakers behind him. He was fifteen at the time. Since then, he’s gone from strength to strength and released his debut album on December 12, 2020. This was written and recorded entirely by Jake, in what he calls a demo format. They’re all acoustic numbers and very stripped down arrangements. I had the great privilege to chat with Jake for a couple of hours on a live stream earlier this year in which he played an array of Heartbreaks, Mudcrutch and Tom solo songs and also gave me some insights into his own music, including Lines On The Road, which he played for me during that stream. What always strikes me about this young man is not just how ferociously talented he is, but also how studious and serious he is about developing his craft. If you look at his heroes; Tom Petty, Jackson Browne, Bruce Springsteen, John Prine, and John Hiatt, he shares that intense passion for what he does. What he also shares with them is a humility and approachability that is both genuine and magnetic. Society is often drawn to the bad boys of rock n roll, rather than the grounded, principled ones. So it’s really refreshing to see a Gen Z kid sticking firmly to the music that moves him and to the principles of the artists he admires most. It makes him very easy to like and his music very easy to connect with.
On December 16th of this year, Jake released his first single recorded professionally with a full band and it’s everything I was hoping it would be. Plenty of guitar, some hammond organ, and most importantly, Jake’s inimitable voice. With Tom’s music, I have an invaluable resource in Paul Zollo’s superb book Conversations With Tom Petty, in which we hear Tom discuss his songs in his own words. So, to complement this episode, I figured I’d go straight to the source and ask him a bunch of questions about the song so that I could share his thoughts directly with you in the episode. As always, Jake was just incredibly helpful and happy to go into detail about the things I was interested in, so a massive thanks as always to him for a) adding to my library of excellent music and b) for being generous enough to share his thoughts. I know he’s an almost impossibly busy fella and he’s on his Christmas holidays, but didn’t mind me pestering him!
The first cool thing right out the gate is where this one was recorded. Jake says, “We recorded this at Lakehouse Studios in Asbury, New Jersey, which is a town full of Jersey music and culture, so it was very fun to work there.” So straight away there’s a Springsteen connection, with The Boss’s debut album being titled Greetings from Asbury Park. I’d mentioned to Jake back when we chatted that I always hear a little more west coast influence in his music than east coast, but it definitely fits loosely in that heartland rock/Americana genre and pulls from all corners of the US.
This is one of a few songs that Jake recorded during his Lakehouse Studio time but this one is unique in that he had it written a long time before recording. He posted a video of the song to his YouTube channel back in August of last year, so it’s one he’d had burning a hole in his brain waiting to be recorded for quite a while. I asked him whether he had it fully formed going into the studio or whether the arrangement changed much once he had a band run through it. He told me “Before going in the studio for this song, unlike some others we recorded, I’d been sitting on Ghosted Road for a while. So in playing it, although solo, I had figured out how I wanted the song arranged and broken up through trial and error on my own, which is why the full band structure is similar to those solo versions.” Of course, when you get other musicians involved, you’re always going to keep ear out for things they might add or subtly change and he went on to say “That said, in working with these incredible musicians, their contributions to the final product were immeasurable.”
The song starts with drums, bass, and guitar. A nice bright crash cymbal leads us into the rhythm part, with a strummed acoustic and electric and then some subdued Mike Campbell-esque fills adding some atmosphere, which are panned left, as Mike’s guitars often were on those first two albums. Coincidence possibly, or a very subtle nod back to an influence? In any case, it makes them stand out nicely. So no wasting time, get straight into tight four bar into to lead into the first verse, with a slick snare roll into the one. I’m gonna say right out the gate too, the production on this song is outstanding and huge credit to Jacob Kulick for really understanding what Jake was trying to say with this one. I talk a lot about drums on this podcast, given my hobbyist drumming experience and I love how present they are in the mix and especially how good the cymbals sound. They’re forward but not overpowering and the snare has a beautiful richness to it that makes it feel like you’re in the room while it’s being played. Mike Santa Cruz is behind the tubs on this one and lays down a really good groove early on that kinda reminds me a little of bands like Counting Crows or the Wallflowers. He’s playing on double note on the third beat of each bar and keeping really light time on the hat. It sets the mid-tempo of the song perfectly. Michael Bereski on bass follows the root notes of the progression including that step-up down on the acoustic guitar. If I’m looking at comparisons with the Heartbreakers, which I’m obviously going to do with a song like this, it’s more of a Howie Epstein bassline than a Ron Blair part, at least to this point. Deep in the pocket, just filling in that low frequency. Jake’s vocal starts in that velvety low register and it’s recorded with a really tight reverb, so you’re listening to his natural tone. After going through four bars of the first chord progression (which I think is E, Gbm, A), we get a descending change for the next four bars before the big vocal push into the chorus, at which point the hammond organ joins in and really fills out the sound beautifully. I love baiting the hook of the song on one word in that minor key with a big hang then leading into the chorus. If you just told me to “Stay!” on that descending chord change. Super effective and again we get a great little drum fill into the chorus.
This is the first time we get some harmonies on the first word “Oh”. So again, great decisions to have the octave change on the last word of the verse, and a big harmony on the first word of the chorus. Nice little dovetails that make the transition from the A section to the B section feel natural and seamless. The harmonies on the line at the end of the chorus “Never wanted to leave” are another little bit of stardust that really make that line pop. There’s a nice final descending chord progression to bring us back out of a chorus.
The second verse proceeds mostly the same as the first, with some different flavours coming from Nick Nella on lead guitar. That lead guitar tone also sounds very slightly distorted now too, to give the second verse a slightly different dynamic. We also have the organ mixed down low through this section to fill the sound out again just move the song forward in a subtle way. About that hammond organ part, Jake said, “Michael Bereski, the bass player, was actually the one who laid that organ down that you hear in the mix. I had a specific part in mind, so I played it so he had the idea, but I knew he had what was needed to really make that part pop.” Now, non-musicians might wonder why Jake wouldn’t just play that part himself. He plays piano right? Well, I can attest that organ is a very different thing to play than piano. I’m struggling right now to write and learn an organ part for a song that I’m working on. Piano comes naturally, but an organ is much closer to strings in some ways so you have to play them with a different set of ears.
So again, this combination of Jake coming in with a really solid idea of what the arrangement should be, then having expertise around him to help him realize that sound makes for a really good musical marriage. I love too that the acoustic is really deep and resonant in this section yet manages to find sonic space between the other guitar parts and the bass. At around 1:55 there’s a nice little fat acoustic guitar up down note that sits in counterpoint to what the lead is playing. So the guitars are really layered, but it’s been mixed so nicely that they’re never competing for space.
Again the drum fill back into the second verse (after “rest” as the push word) is mixed back a little so it’s not overpowering but it’s beautifully played. Again, if I were drawing a comparison, this is more Ferrone than Lynch in feel.
As I’m sitting listening to this second chorus, there’s another vocalist that’s crept into my brain who I think Jake has hues of and it’s John Waite, of “Missing You” and Bad English fame. Maybe it’s because Missing you has very loosely similar push into the chorus. It’s tenuous, but there was just a little shout in the back of my mind that made a connection to that song.
After this second chrous, we get a really tasty, bluesy, solo from Nick Nella that leads us into the bridge. It’s not a huge dynamic shift, same tempo, just a different progression and a different lyrical cadence from Jake. It’s also all major key, so it’s enough of a change to act as a little breakdown, with some big pushes on the drums before they drop out and lead us into the final chorus. Lyrically, this is another excellent little creative choice. The previous two choruses start with “Oh, I’m just a ghosted road” but with this one having that big stop and the flam on the drums, Jake drops that first beat and comes in instead on the “I’m just a Ghosted Road”. Wonderful.
Alright folks, It’s time for some Thistle Trivia!
Hey, I figured I may as well keep the theme going and throw all you Jake fans a little mini-quiz to test your knowledge.
Let’s start out with an easy one; which member of the Heartbreakers gifted Jake a guitar, which he unboxed live on August 3rd of last year? Was it a) Mike Campbell, b) Ron Blair, or c) Scott Thurston?
Second question; At which University did Jake begin his post-secondary education at in fall of this year? Was it a) Tufts, b) Harvard, or c) Rutgers
And your last question; Which was the first song that 9 year old Jake posted to his YouTube channel back on December 16, 2013? Was it a) American Girl, b) Learning to Fly, or c) I Won’t Back Down.
And as a treat, post your answers to my social media and I’ll enter you to win a free, signed copy of Jake’s debut demo album, Down the Line! Go look for the posts on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter!
OK, back to the song. The last chorus really powers us through to the end of the song, with Bereski now sounding more like Ron Blair and climbing up the neck, adding in more substance to that bottom end. The cymbals crash through this section and we get a sublime little trill on the ride cymbal to signal the end of the rhythm section, leaving Jake and an electric guitar to end the song, which he does by hanging on the penultimate chord, rather than on the root note. I asked him specifically about that decision and he said “the more I write, the more I realize I do it almost every time. I guess that’s the Petty influence in me.”
As I often do on regular episodes of the podcast, I’ve left the vocals and the lyrics to last. Like all the great singer/songwriters, it doesn’t really matter how good you are at writing if you can’t deliver it like you mean it. Jakes voice is improving at a startling rate from being very good a couple of years ago to a point now where you’re having to say that he’s pretty much as good as anyone in this Americana/roots type sound. He has certain phrasings where he sounds like Jackson Browne. He writes certain lines that sound like they’re lifted from a Tom Petty songbook, and yet they always sound, at the end, like Jake Thistle. And having your own distinctive voice is key. I love the decision to really stick in that low register for the verse before belting out those last lines into the chorus and then staying in that mid-to-upper range. Really shifts the dynamic brilliantly and delineates the two main sections of the song. It’s a very strong performance from a singer I could sit and listen to pretty much all day.
Lyrically, this shows another evolution in Jake’s songwriting. There are recurring themes through his work to date and roads feature prominently. No wonder, with the number of gigs he does, plus balancing school and home life, he’s on the road an awful lot. I wondered if the title “Ghosted Road” was a line that he’d seen or heard, or had written down to do something with. But as with so many songs, this was a later change. He told me; “I had been working with the "staring down the barrel of this town" line in a couple of failed first verses prior to getting it how I wanted, so it was some trial and error to start the song up. Once I got rolling through it, the rest went pretty quick. However, the words Ghosted Road were the last piece to fall in. I actually had the entire song written where I was singing "oh, I'm just a lonely soul." But I knew it should have something to do with roads or travel considering the rest of the chorus and bridge, so that line wasn't speaking to me. I landed on "broken road," but I thought the word "ghosted" provided some more imagery and was more unique, anyway, so it stuck. But the song was originally called "Lonely Soul." For me that change from Lonely Soul to Ghosted Road is as important as the change from You Rock Me to You Wreck Me. It changes the meaning slightly and provides much more soul and originality to the song.
It’s a song about leaving but not necessarily wanting to. And it’s that wonderful balance of having different meanings. Having spent nine years of my life in the military, this is a sentiment I understand really well. Having been in failing relationships, I’ve also had that feeling in another sense. So that transitional line at the end of the first verse, “You know I would have hung around if you’d just told me to stay” with the forlorn howl on stay, really resonates. Similarly, Jake extends the metaphor in the chorus without it feeling cheesy or over the top, “Begging you to change the traffic light, so I can just move on.” And adding in that extra harmony to balance it with the first line. All deliberate and all very cool.
I commented to Jake when we talked that he writes with an incisive awareness of the human condition, bordering at times on world-weariness, that belies his years. Yet, again, it never feels contrived. The first two lines of the bridge are heartbreaking; “I feel my heartbeat sinking with the blinking of the traffic light I’m standing under. I’m surrounded by the glow of the alternating of the red and yellow color“. You notice that there’s no mention of green. It’s a character resigned to a negative outcome and feeling unable to really change that outcome.
And the best line of the lot, “your tears meant nothing next to what your silence said”. Negation. Ending. Finality. And may I remind you that this lad was at most 17 when he wrote this. Imagine what he’s going to write if he ever has a couple of ex-girlfriends and maybe a bit of bad luck behind him, though I’m obviously not wishing that happens! I don’t think artists need to bleed to make great art.
OK, that’s all for this week. Jake told me “The recording process was such a blast! This song was my first time with a full band in a professional studio, so it was an incredible learning experience as well.” I’m going to have to stop saying this at some point and it’s probably going to be really soon, but Jake is only 18/turning 19 in March next year. To be able to write a song this strong, both lyrically and compositionally, is truly awe-inspring. I’m not going to give the non-Petty songs a rating out of 10 because with Tom’s stuff, I’m using a basic reference point or baseline. Instead I’m just going to say that you really all ought to be paying very close attention to this artist if you aren’t already. He’s still really early in his career but already has a resume a mile long and several excellent songs under his belt, with no signs of slowing down. In fact, he just keeps improving. I was watching a few things back in prep for this and even in the last twelve months, for example, his piano playing has stepped up a whole level and his guitar playing is even more consistent. It’s been a thrill finding Jake’s music, a bigger thrill having been lucky enough to connect with him and learn that he’s also a rock solid guy with a fantastic supportive family behind him, urging him on. As I’ve said in conversation before, he gives me real hope that the art of songwriting and playing guitars is not yet dead and I’m really looking forward to seeing him play live some day.
Hey, I figured I may as well keep the theme going and throw all you Jake fans a little mini-quiz to test your knowledge.
QUESTIONS:
Let’s start out with an easy one; which member of the Heartbreakers gifted Jake a guitar, which he unboxed live on August 3rd of last year? Was it a) Mike Campbell, b) Ron Blair, or c) Scott Thurston?
Second question; At which University did Jake begin his post-secondary education at in fall of this year? Was it a) Tufts, b) Harvard, or c) Rutgers
And your last question; Which was the first song that 9 year old Jake posted to his YouTube channel back on December 16, 2013? Was it a) American Girl, b) Learning to Fly, or c) I Won’t Back Down.
And as a treat, post your answers to my social media and I’ll enter you to win a free, signed copy of Jake’s debut demo album, Down the Line! Go look for the posts on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter!
ANSWERS: TBC
I, I’m staring down the barrel of this town
I try, but I can’t see the end of the road that leads out
I remember how you cried when you saw me ride away
You know I would have hung around if you’d just told me to stay
Oh, I’m just a ghosted road
Begging you to change the traffic light
So, so I can just move on
Then move on back to you if it’s alright
‘Cause your tears meant nothing
Next to what your silence said
What if I never wanted to leave,
Just wanted to see what you’d think if I did
Well I pass time counting headlights on this road
After all this time, excluding mine, I’m still at zero
I want to crawl back to you but I’m afraid you won’t like what’s left
You’ve seen all my good times, but you can have the rest
Oh, I’m just a ghosted road
Begging you to change the traffic light
So, so I can just move on
Then move on back to you if it’s alright
‘Cause your tears meant nothing
Next to what your silence said
What if I never wanted to leave,
Just wanted to see what you’d think if I did
I just wanted to see what you’d think if I did
I feel my heartbeat sinking with the blinking of the traffic light I’m standing under
I’m surrounded by the glow of the alternating of the red and yellow color
There’s still so much ground between here and there that I’m going to have to cover
I’m just a ghosted road
Begging you to change the traffic light
So, so I can just move on
Then move on back to you if it’s alright
‘Cause your tears meant nothing
Next to what your silence said
And I never wanted to leave,
Just wanted to see what you’d think if I did
